Last Call: Transforming Last Call
Transformations can be good. We’ll explain after the jump.
Links That Matter
Did hype break Freddy Adu like anonymity is making Charlie Davies? (Match Fit USA)
The new NHL 10 trailer is slathered in awesome sauce. (Operation Sports)
Bethlehem Shoals takes another look at the WNBA. (The Sporting Blog)
RealClearSports talks to JoePo. Enlightening stuff. (RealClearSports)
A thoroughly great breakdown for soccer newbies. (The Phoenix Pub)
Links to Our Stuff
Buch on Tiger. Rock on Bolt. Chill on Yang.
The Switch
We enjoy being a part of the Last Call tribe, even on days when we suck at putting together a Last Call post (cough, Friday, cough). But we’ve noticed that the forum gets better response when there’s a topic, or a live event, or something remotely resembling content to discuss.
Enter the Bull Session.
It’s one topic—question, statement, idea—on our minds; ours for tonight is below. It might be about the game of the night (which could lead to a live blog) or about something universal in sports; it might be about something apart from sports entirely. It’s going to be the centerpiece of our Last Call posts for the foreseeable future, and may expand beyond Monday and Friday. It’s something we wonder about on our own time and hope you can help us understand.
Discuss—or ignore— it. Either way works. But it’s our effort to ask you questions that might get your brain burbling. And it’s our hope that you enjoy it.
(It’s also open to suggestions on inspirations, via links or questions. Our email, as always, is therookiesblog@gmail.com.)
Aspiring Rookies
If you would like to be either a contributor to or a full-fledged member of The Rookies, please email therookiesblog@gmail.com and indicate an interest in one or the other. If you already have, and have sent us a piece: We’ll be getting to you shortly.
The Bull Session Question of the Night
The lively discussion in the Pub’s comments today and the discussion we had in the Rookies’ lounge yesterday both wondered whether Y.E. Yang’s upset of Tiger Woods in this weekend’s PGA Championship was the biggest of recent memory and brought up the New York Giants’ toppling of the New England Patriots. Some of us thought the latter was the biggest upset of late; others thought it wasn’t even an upset. The disparity there led to a discussion about what an upset really is. We’d like to continue that discussion with you.
So, our question: What constitutes an upset?
The idea of an upset should not be boiled down to simple, factual team numbers. So much of what causes the memories of the greatest upsets of all time to come out so rosy so many years later is based on public perception. To say that the Giants over the Pats wasn’t an upset is to ignore that the sporting media and public had basically given the trophy to Tom Brady a week in advance. The dominating questions had to do with could the Giants possibly win or whether or not the Pats were the best team of all time. While media and public perception in sports is often a dangerously speculative source, accounting for the zeitgeist in these situations allows for greater emotional returns (kind of like how USA vs. Russia in 1980 was so much more of a big deal than, say, Chaminade beating Virginia).
The problem with media speculation (or betting lines, or history) alone being flipping on its head qualifying a result as an upset is that it can all be wrong. In the case of Pats/Giants, though the Patriots were heavy favorites and gunning for immortality, the Giants had given them one of the better games of the season in a thriller a little more than a month before. The difference in the teams on the field was much slimmer than the gulf the media created for them on paper.
That said: An upset is an upset in part because it, well, upsets, no? If there is no leaning one way or another, then there can be no surprise in the upset.
But you only knew that the betting lines and media speculation were “all wrong” AFTER the Giants won. Until then, no one could make a reasonable prediction that the Giants would win. I’m not saying that no one predicted their win, I’m saying that all signs pointed to a Pats win.
That’s what makes the Giants’ win such an upset.
Quite simply, i think an upset has to mean something significant. That’s why I tend to rank the App State-Michigan lower. It was a regular season game which meant nothing towards Michigan’s bowl status. Michigan goes unbeaten in the Big 11, then they go to a BCS game. The Superbowl is the Superbowl. Our win knocked WVU out of the National Title game, which they would have won had they played Ohio State. Y.E. Yang didn’t beat Tiger in the John Deere Championship, he beat him in the PGA Championship. I’d put this number one, put the superbowl two, then take you pick of Pitt/WVU, Stanford/USC, Boise/Oklahoma for third.
eewwww….golf
@Sculptor?!?:
I can’t tell you everything that happened this weekend, but I can tell you what didn’t. The Indians did not trade away any good players for 35 cents on the dollar. That’s something, right?
Biggest individual (i.e., non-team) sports upset of my lifetime: Buster Douglass.
But wasn’t Tyson sort of declining then, anyway? Wikipedia says the pre-fight Tyson was “in disarray.” Similarly, the English team the U.S. beat in the legendary 1950 World Cup “Game of Their Lives” was off form in that tournament.
That doesn’t necessarily cheapen the upset, in my mind, except that it explains it and removes some of the surprise.
I was thinking the same thing this weekend about LC being so much more active when there is an event to focus people. Your ideas on what to do about that are terrific. This question is too broad for my tiny reptilian brain though.
It also helps when there is a big sporting event on. But yeah, some days it’s a desert here.
The biggest American sporting upsets of my lifetime were as follows: USA over Russia (Olympic Hockey), NC State over Houston and Villanova over Georgetown (NCAA Basketball), Denver over LA Lakers and Houston over Boston (NBA Basketball), Buster Douglas over Mike Tyson (boxing), New England over St. Louis and NY Giants over New England (Super Bowls), and Appalachian State over Michigan (NCAA football). I’m sure I’m forgetting some. There have been some rather huge upsets recently in Euro footy, mostly in cup competitions. Upsets keep sports fun. It’s no good when the favored team wins all the time.
I’m trying to place the Rockets upset over the Celtics and can’t
I think an upset is when the better team is beaten. Not when they lose to a worse team, when they are beaten. Tiger shot a 75 yesterday. He lost. The Giants beat the Patriots. Villanova beat Georgetown. The Miracle on Ice was an upset. The US over Spain was an upset. It’s too soon to put yesterday into context, but I do not think it was a big upset. The story is as much that Tiger lost, and that’s how it will be remembered.
This is where I slightly disagree… Tiger was beaten yesterday because he couldn’t make the shots that Yang was making (the putts down the end, the irons onto the greens, the chip in)… the aura surrounding the event was part of it too, which is why I’d rank App St down, Boise State over OK down
in my lifetime, it’d probably go IMHO:
Miracle on Ice
Yang over Tiger
Buster Douglas
NCState/Villanova (tie)
Giants over Pats
So, the Raider’s coaches are exactly like Raider’s fans?
Eh, at leasrt Lane Kiffen never punched a guy.
I don’t blame Cable at all. I’ve wanted to punch fellow coaches on more than one occasion. Fortunately, I’ve only done it twice.
To threadjack slightly, did anyone else catch that they sent Simmons to Azteca for the WCQ? Decent column from him (nary an 80’s pop culture reference outside of basketball, really).
Hmmm… I might go out and read that tonight.
ESPN did send Reilly to the World Series of Beer Pong a few years ago so this isn’t really all that surprising. This article isn’t much interest to me so I may not read it, we’ll see though.
Was that sarcasm, or are you actually comparing the World Series of Beer Pong to a USA-Mexico WCQ at Azteca?
I’m saying there’s no way that game is something Simmons would write about if ESPN didn’t send him there.
Sure. But that says as much/more about Simmons’s narrow perspective than the import of the game.
Yeah…
That’s totally not fair…
Beer ppong is MUCH more popular in the US
For me the World Series of Beer Pong would me much more entertaining…go ahead kill me.
No reason to kill you for bad taste.
Reilly’s KID was at the WSOBP. He wasn’t sent.
He wrote an article on it doesn’t that qualify as them sending him to write about it? Did he just go with his kid and just voluntarily write that crap? I figured they sent him.
That was a good article, literally out of nowhere too.
Punkass stole my “holy shit, they have barbed wire fences around the pitch!” bit…
http://avoidingthedrop.com/2009/06/09/first-timers-brother-buttons/
Granted, he did it better. (And probably without ever seeing my dribble.)
Is it bad that I didn’t realize there was football on until I looked at the tv three feet to the left of the one showing beisbol?
I’m excited to see the Giants WR’s and what they do.
I will have to mention to my buddy that his opinion of this being the upset of the decade has helped spark a nice little debate.
Please do! Ton of mileage out of that text.
I find LC a lot easier to participate in when there’s something on worthwhile sports-wise that I can watch as background.
That’s whats so funny about all the “LC and DUAN are dead” comments. Its the dog days of sports, people. Nothing to talk about.
I’d agree with that, too. But topics help.
I guess the stories for tonight are Strasburg signing, Smoltz possibly signing, the Giants-Panthers game, and the upset debate.
I didn’t see Strasburg signed. I’m surprised tWWL had it all wrong. Shocking.
He didn’t sign yet, i should have said his potential signing. He’s a dumbass for not signing. Then the Nats would have the 1st 2 picks next year, so chances are they draft him again and he is throwing a year away. It’s like the Crabtree situation. What’s the gain or going back into the draft? Take the $.
You think they will take him again? I’m not sure they would do that.
I think they have to. If he’s got “once in a life-time” stuff and they still don’t have the money, i’m sure they could work a sign and trade. It’s his career, he’s only hurting himself.
The nats can’t draft strassberg again unless he signs a waiver. See aaron crow this year.
Also, I believe that the number one pick is protected, and the nats wouldn’t get that pick again for losing this years. Granted, might still get it for worst record, but the padres will put up a fight.
I know i heard if they don’t sign him they would have the 1 and 2 next year. Who knows though this could possibly be a plot of his to end up with the Padres next year if the Nats have to legally pass on him next year.
I’m 100% on the waiver part… not 100% on the repick. Baseball prospectus and kevin goldstein probably have it somewhere, but I don’t want to wander the webs too much on my phone.
Who was the rb who just scored for NY?
Bradshaw.
Bradshaw. Really nice run and blocking.
Sweet, Michael Silver called me out on Twitter. I love it! So much better than random flame-emails!
I still wanna throw Fresno State winning the College World Series. That was the equivalent of a 15 seed winning the NCAA tournament.
I agree. And I think this debate ends the day a 15 beats a 1.
Not that I want to drive uniques to this crap, but I thought Fanhouse actually liked/respected MMA. This piece? Not so much.
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/08/17/mma-is-no-breakthrough-for-women/
The Yahoo MMA blogger is a woman. How cool is that?
One of them, anyway. But yes, it is cool.
Women that aren’t terrified by MMA is impressive. Going by the number i saw at BBW watching a fight there’s not too many.
To paraphrase Forrest Griffin’s (very funny) book, you want a woman somewhere between the one that actually gets aroused by fights and the one that finds fights repulsive. But they do exist. Also, it’s one thing not to be terrified when watching on TV; it’s another not to be terrified live. I’m happy with the former.
Oh, and Whitley’s an average columnist who couldn’t keep a newspaper job (he used to write for the Orlando Sentinel); I wouldn’t worry too much.
FanHouse’s blogger and columnist wings do not seem to talk to each other.
I guess. It’s just that the column dragged out every stupid trope that I was surprised Whitley didn’t use “cock-fighting” in there somewhere.
That was an entertaining fight.
Also, I kind of like Gruden in the booth. They haven’t neutered him yet.
Give it a couple weeks.
Oh, I know. I’m going to enjoy it while I can (like the Vermeil/Jaws booth we got that one time).
Even Kornheiser wasn’t horrible his first couple games because he didn’t give a crap who he pissed off.
I’m totally alone in liking Kornheiser on MNF. I realize this.
Not really. I just liked him a lot more before he started having meetings with owners and coaches and he really didn’t care who he was bad mouthing. After a while he got watered down. Overall I liked him though. And I especially liked him and Jaws going at eachother.
I’m with you in that vast minority I guess.
I didn’t mind Tony, probably because of how bad some other football announcers are (Joe Buck, Josh Lewin, Al Michaels).
Yo, what’s up?
My top five biggest upsets:
1. Buster Douglas over Tyson.
2. Miracle on Ice.
3. G-Men over Pats.
4. Gardner over Karelin (What? I’m a wrestling fan.)
5. Villanova over G-Town/NC State over Houston.
Sorry, I could give a shit about golf.
I was going to mention Gardner earlier but figured I’d get laughed off the internet. I would also like to throw out there Netherlands 2, Dominican Republic 1 in the WBC.
Id probably move gardner into my top whatever too.
Yeah the Netherlands upset was huge too. They had basically zero MLB talent on their team. I think Vandenhurk and Ponson were the only ones on the team since Andruw and JJ didn’t play. Neither of those two that played had any impact, so yeah that’s up there too.
Gardner/Karelin is also maybe the best story of an upset ever.
Great story. And man do I wish I had Posnanski’s life!!! What a list of things he has seen.
Who wouldn’t want his life? Dude’s awesome.
That is a great story.
Okay, David, stop pointing. It’s a preseason game.
Jesus maybe if Carr did that earlier in his career he’d be starting now. Hell of a dive.
To be fair, the Giants backups are a better line than he ever had.
Yeah, I still think he has a shot in this league eventually. But even with a good line in front of him, he still needs to get over his PTSD from his time in Texas.
They probably are, actually the definitely are but how many QB’s step out of bounds there even in the regular season? And how many tear their ACL doing so (I can think of 1 guy that did that)? I like that play there. I guess he gives a shit about his job.
Nah. That’s the David Carr Memorial “Overachieving vs The Second String” Play in action. Saw it for these same Panthers, in almost the exact play, at the same point in the first preseason game. Don’t worry – two blitzes and he’ll be sitting on the end of the bench, rocking and moaning.
Josh McCown, doing his best David Carr impression . . .
David Carr’s just doing a Rick Mirer impression.
Is Josh McNown a back-up for a different team every year? This guy is the Guillermo Mota of the NFL.
Nice run by that other running back who’s name I couldn’t see… this is not a good bar stool for MNF.
/takes mental note
Danny Ware. From what i hear he will be part of their 2009 version of Earth, Wind and Fire. Either Wind or Fire. Your guess is as good as mine.
Danny Ware is good. He was ahead of Knowshon for a while at Jawja.
Any relation to andre? Roca? Under?
None that I know of?
I really should have mentioned this earlier, but: The Pubcast has been excellent tonight.
I missed it. Who was on?
Rob Littal of BlackSportsOnline. Fun conversation.
agreed.
The fuck’s a Hakeem Nicks?
Out of North Carolina. Made that amazing behind the back catch last year. Look it up on youtube. Might be a good NFL receiver.
I actually follow UNC football a bit. Nicks is good but Brandon Tate (now a patriot sadly) is an absolute beast. I wish he would have landed in a better situation.
Bad situation because he is buried? Or bad situation because New England is now the Yankees of football and everyone hates them?
Bad situation because Moss and Welker are going to start and get tons of looks. Old man Galloway is going to be the new Jabar Gaffney who randomly catches 50 yard TD’s. Then you have a few tight ends that are going to get looks plus Kevin Faulk on 3rd down out of the backfield. Tate has a ton of talent and chances are he won’t get on the field to show it. Plus, i hate the Pats most than almost every team in the league, aside from the Eagles.
So how early is too early to call for a coach’s head? McDaniels in Denver appears to be every bit the asshole that Belichick is, but without the management or coaching skills. He’s “demoted” Brandon Marshall to 2nd team behind Jabar Gaffney. He’s got a guy who would rather be somewhere else, but instead of holding out he comes to camp and commits to the team, so you demote him? Sure, good work. Jackass.
Apparently the people in Denver have felt this way since the Cutler thing. I was willing to give him time. Well, this shows he’s just a moron, so time’s up.
I can’t believe they haven’t run him out of town yet. And the neck beard had a hell of a game too. McDaniels reminds me of a junior high chick.
We may be sharing in the misery of the “Belichick Coaching Tree” this year, which you guys seem to have experienced already.
Welcome. It’s wonderful. The crazy thing is that your owner just kind of lost his mind. Ours just doesn’t give a shit about anything that isn’t soccer.
Haley supposedly demoted Dwayne Bowe to the 3rd receiver. I’m willing to bet it won’t stay that way. Marshall will be starting. Orton needs a safety valve and with all the screens and stuff.
Yeah, I know he’ll be starting, and this might just be so that he gets a few more reps in the next exhibition game, but it just smacks of petty mind games and power moves.
Especially with how he handled Cutler.
I agree. I also don’t doubt McDaniels is a jackass. I have a feeling he’s going to be the one who pays for these stupid decisions.
So… Sorority Row is, like, I Know What You Did Last Summer XVI, right? Only without Jennifer Love Hewitt (I assume she ate her way out of a role)
That, and “starring” actresses all of whom are even worse than Freddie Prinze, Jr. at acting.
Yeah, seems like a really dumb movie that most rational people wouldn’t see. If you’re going to make a movie where all the main characters are high school to college age girls, at least make them actresses that will bring people in.
What up peoples?
I thought I’d share my thoughts on Simmons’ trip to Azteca. I posted it earlier on Unprofessional Foul, and now I’m sharing my hatred with you:
You know, I try not to be negative about someone or something unless I can give you a specific reason why. So here goes.
As far as soccer is concerned, Simmons watched a few World Cup matches, had a few conversations with MLS lackey Rob Stone, and then wrote a few articles on soccer. The final one included his usual assortment of comments like “Team X is just like the Yankees!” and “Team Y is just like Karate Kid 2!”. At the end of the column, he picked Spurs, calling them “the Spurs” and went on and on about how he was gonna go to London and buy jerseys and blah blah blah.
3 minutes later, he realized that there was a 96 hour tv marathon of “The Simple Life” that was showing somewhere on Directv and forgot that soccer ever existed while he plotted his next book: Tom is like Paris, Bill is like Nicole.
Basically, he’s a fucking jackass. He doesn’t respect the fucking game, and I hope he chokes on the Wes Welkah pubic hair dolls that he surely purchased on ebay.
Cunt.
Yeah, but other than all that…
well played
Also, you said you actually liked this column, right? Which means if he develops into a consistent USMNT fan (and drops the simultaneous attempt to become a Prem fan), you’d have less of a problem with him?
In all honesty, I’m in the permanent anti-Simmons camp. So I’ll think he’s a cunt no matter what.
Fair enough. If I were as big of a soccer (specifically, Prem) fan as you are, I’d probably react similarly.
If he hadn’t done that stupid aborted Spurs thing – if he’d just shown occasional interest in the USMNT, do you think you’d still hate his ass? Or is it more than just his treatment of soccer?
It’s much bigger than just soccer. Listen to his 2 part podcast with Chuck Klosterman from a few months ago. Basically, Bill criticizes the old guard of sports reporting, Klosterman points out that many people criticize him for the same things, and Bill refuses to hear it.
But that was really just the final straw. I just found his columns to be more and more pompous. After a couple of years of reading him, I was ready to stop, and then I heard that podcast.
Basically, he thinks that his opinions and actions are always completely reasonable, informed, and totally unique. His blind spot is that he’s just as full of shit as a guy like Jay Marriotti. Only instead of openly assaulting people with his bullshit, he’s passive aggressive with it.
It probably goes without saying, but I believe in the George Carlin philosophy of dislike.
“I don’t have pet peeves. I have major psychotic fucking hatreds.”
You know what, now that you mention it, I remember you saying that about the Klosterman podcast back when it came out. Thanks.
Personally, if he could write like he did with today’s piece every time, I’d be much happier with him. But I suppose that’s asking for in-his-prime Billy Chapel, not the one we have now.
I see where you’re coming from, but I have to think this helps the game. He’s coming from the position of “this is cool” not “Wow, they don’t use their hands!” He mentioned that he watched Tottenham this week, and he seems to really be behind the USMNT.
He was in a suite. A suite with ESPN suits. A bubble in the middle of Azteca.
He will also be ripped here tomorrow.
You know what? If I’m a USMNT fan going to a WCQ at Azteca, and I’m given the choice to sit in a bubble, I’m going to sit in a fucking bubble. Forgive me for not “keeping it real,” but I see no need to get drenched in beer, urine and other shit. I’m too fucking old for it, thanks.
I agree. Press Box>Field/Stands anyday. I also wouldn’t want to be among those nut jobs. Seeing the Venezuelan and Dominican baseball fans during a game was enough to see that.
Maybe DJ Gallo put Yang v Tiger in proper perspective
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/090817&sportCat=golf
he hates our freedom
Gruden ain’t great, but at least I can watch MNF with the volume on again. Fuck Tony K.
Hola mes amigos… I’m back!
Hi. What’s up?
Albert Pujols. Damn, I’m glad to be a Cards fan. And apparently, second time through against a knuckleballer is a different thing.
god what hasn’t been up.. moved across the country for a job, lived in a hotel for a month with limited internet. bought a home, and found out today my company is laying off 800 nationwide…
Ummm…good times?
Good times would seem to be an understatement. Keep your head up.
I am pretty sure I’m safe. My branch should get less lay-offs than others, and if that’s the case the move was completely worth it.
It’s my first house so i am pretty excited by it, but it’s been a ton of work. More than i imagined.
Jaws Eagles bias is insane. Just like every single year, the Eagles will choke in the playoffs unless McNabb goes down and Vick starts.
Ahhhh to choke in the playoffs. Sounds like fun to me.
Sonofabitch. It’s a damned preseason game, and already Fox is pulling this horseshit. Good thing I don’t give a fuck about the outcome of this one, else I’d be a wreck about now.
You don’t like Fox? Do tell.
Oh, no, fuck me running but I prefer him to any coach the Panthers have had so far. It’s just this “win or lose at the last possible moment” thing that they have played for since he became HC that gets me. I mean, I’m not in the best of shape – a big guy’s heart can’t take too much of that with the season on the line.
Well, that finishes THAT, I guess. Pending booth review.
Thanks for the nice words Rock. And lordy lord am I tired – orientation over in 2 days – thank God
Oh God, with the fucking Yogi-isms. Shut up already.
Ok… time to go to bed and see if Strasberg signs in teh next 20 minutes… g’nite folks.
Anyone else watching sportscenter? And if so, what the fuck is Ray Lewis wearing? Is he staring in the new Mad Max movie?
I was wondering the same thing the first time i saw the interview like 2 days ago. It looks like a combination of a flack jacket, a bulletproof vest and a catcher’s chest protector. I guess he wears what he wants because if you say something we all know what happens.
At least it wasn’t a pink bath robe.
Greg Paulus has been named Syracuse’s starting QB for the opening game against some midwestern school on Sept. 5th.
In a completely unrelated story, Minnesota fans are fucking ecstatic at being 1-0 after facing a flopping PG that’s attempting to play football when they enter their new stadium for the 1st time on Sept. 12th.
Curious: Anyone listen to the song up top tonight?
I see Marc Bulger is defying my predictions by getting hurt before Week 1.